THE ANGLER'S MANIFESTO

Question:

A similar thing happened to me once. Some animal nuts in a boat went hauling ass over my line. I went to the parking lot where the boat ramp was. There was a car with a trailer that matched their boat and that was it. After making 100% sure it was them I slashed all their tires…including the ones on the trailer, broke all of their windows, kicked and keyed the whole car, took a shit on the hood and pissed on the seats. While they were out playing games with fisherman I took it to their car and trailer. I probably caused about 10-12 grand in damage over a 20 minute span. Made me feel good all over.

Response:

A similar thing happened to me once. Some animal nuts in a boat went hauling ass over my line. I went to the parking lot where the boat ramp was. There was a car with a trailer that matched their boat and that was it. After making 100% sure it was them I slashed all their tires…including the ones on the trailer, broke all of their windows, kicked and keyed the whole car, took a shit on the hood and pissed on the seats. While they were out playing games with fisherman I took it to their car and trailer. I probably caused about 10-12 grand in damage over a 20 minute span. Made me feel good all over.

Nice troll. I don’t think you are trolling for flatheads, though. More like suckers. Lets see how many that bs story nets you.

Response:

Dear Angler,     I’m a fisherman and journalist living in San Diego. I’ll soon be submitting the following essay to newspapers, in a long form and a shorter form, but I want to do something different: I’m posting this on a few fishing newsgroups before I send it out for publication. You’re welcome to comment on the essay and/or e-mail it to as many fellow-anglers (or anti-anglers) as you wish. Please let me know what they say, and what you think. Thanks.           — Richard Louv THE ANGLER

THE ANGLER'S MANIFESTO

Question:

One or two minor mistakes, which require a proof reading. Otherwise it seems quite excellent. I hope it reaches a wider public. I would challenge the commercial nature of the project, I am always suspicious of things which are done basically to make money, but then I always was a queer bugger. I wonder how you got to ROFF with it?   As I recall I have never seen your name here before. It seems you monitor the group though? TL MC Dear Angler,

<SNIP

Response:

Richard, I thoroughly enjoyed reading "Flyfishing for Sharks." Kevin

Response:

Dear Angler,   I’m a fisherman and journalist living in San Diego. I’ll soon be submitting the following essay to newspapers, in a long form and a shorter form, but I want to try something different: I’m testing this in a few fishing communities before I send it out for publication. You’re welcome to comment on the essay and/or e-mail it to as many fellow-anglers (or anti-anglers) as you wish. Please let me know what they say, and what you think. Thanks.         — Richard Louv THE ANGLER

parks in Denver area?

Question:

We will be in the Denver area for a week in our 37 ft. rv.  We enjoy state parks with beautiful scenery but are not closed to just that.  Please recommend a park within 4 hours of Denver. Thanks in advance. — Sandy in Texas

Response:

We stayed last summer at the Cherry Creek Res. Park in Aurora. Go to Denver web page and look for area parks. They have electric and shared water hook-ups at some of the sites. Pretty place with lots of wildlife in area. We had an Owl land on our trailer one night and make some noise though. Paul Deen ‘95 Chevy 6.5 TD, 27 ft. Fiver – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We will be in the Denver area for a week in our 37 ft. rv.  We enjoy state parks with beautiful scenery but are not closed to just that.  Please recommend a park within 4 hours of Denver. Thanks in advance. — Sandy in Texas

Response:

Chatfield Reservoir is in the southwest corner of the Denver metro area just off C-470. Some sites offer electric hook-ups. Good recreational opportunities with everything from paddleboats to jet skis for rent. Stan. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We stayed last summer at the Cherry Creek Res. Park in Aurora. Go to Denver web page and look for area parks. They have electric and shared water hook-ups at some of the sites. Pretty place with lots of wildlife in area. We had an Owl land on our trailer one night and make some noise though. Paul Deen ‘95 Chevy 6.5 TD, 27 ft. Fiver We will be in the Denver area for a week in our 37 ft. rv.  We enjoy state parks with beautiful scenery but are not closed to just that.  Please recommend a park within 4 hours of Denver. Thanks in advance. — Sandy in Texas

Response:

I appreciate your input!  I don’t feel so hung out on a limb after feedback from fellow travelers. Happy trails — Sandy in Texas

Response:

On the same note is there an RV park in the Denver area which has onsite phone hookups which can be activated at sign in with the appropriate payment in cash or with credit card?? Gene Wilson – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – We will be in the Denver area for a week in our 37 ft. rv.  We enjoy state parks with beautiful scenery but are not closed to just that.  Please recommend a park within 4 hours of Denver. Thanks in advance. — Sandy in Texas

Response:

Boating phrases…

Question:

Intersingly enough Harry failes to mention some fave’s from the Errol Flynn and John Wayne flicks: "Right full rudder" and "flank speed". New group BTW rec. paddleboats and rec.paddleboats.whitewater. Sorry, no more oars at the Mustang ranch. David – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – we’d like to hear more often: Abandon ship All aboard All at sea All hands on deck Bale out Between the Devil and the deep blue sea Boat Race Captain of industry Deck of cards Don’t rock the boat Don’t spoil the ship for a ha’pworth of tar Fleet of foot From sea to shining sea Full steam ahead George Raft Get your sea legs Hands across the sea Have a Captain Cook Hello sailor Hit the deck   In the same boat Man overboard Messing about in boats Missed the boat Not dealing from a full deck Not playing with a full deck Paddle your own canoe Push the boat out Sea change – A Set sail Shape up or ship out She sells sea shells on the sea shore Ship shape and Bristol fashion That ship has sailed The boy stood on the burning deck The deep blue sea There’s always more fish in the sea Turn turtle Twenty thousand leagues under the sea Whatever floats your boat — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - I come from Alabama with a Tagline on my knee.

Response:

we’d like to hear more often:

"Have another beer." Couldn’t help but notice your list is in alphabetical order. -Jeff – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Abandon ship All aboard All at sea All hands on deck Bale out Between the Devil and the deep blue sea Boat Race Captain of industry Deck of cards Don’t rock the boat Don’t spoil the ship for a ha’pworth of tar Fleet of foot From sea to shining sea Full steam ahead George Raft Get your sea legs Hands across the sea Have a Captain Cook Hello sailor Hit the deck In the same boat Man overboard Messing about in boats Missed the boat Not dealing from a full deck Not playing with a full deck Paddle your own canoe Push the boat out Sea change – A Set sail Shape up or ship out She sells sea shells on the sea shore Ship shape and Bristol fashion That ship has sailed The boy stood on the burning deck The deep blue sea There’s always more fish in the sea Turn turtle Twenty thousand leagues under the sea Whatever floats your boat — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - I come from Alabama with a Tagline on my knee.

Response:

we’d like to hear more often: Abandon ship All aboard All at sea All hands on deck Bale out Between the Devil and the deep blue sea Boat Race Captain of industry Deck of cards Don’t rock the boat Don’t spoil the ship for a ha’pworth of tar Fleet of foot From sea to shining sea Full steam ahead George Raft Get your sea legs Hands across the sea Have a Captain Cook Hello sailor Hit the deck   In the same boat Man overboard Messing about in boats Missed the boat Not dealing from a full deck Not playing with a full deck Paddle your own canoe Push the boat out Sea change – A Set sail Shape up or ship out She sells sea shells on the sea shore Ship shape and Bristol fashion That ship has sailed The boy stood on the burning deck The deep blue sea There’s always more fish in the sea Turn turtle Twenty thousand leagues under the sea Whatever floats your boat — Harry Krause – - – - – - – - – - – - I come from Alabama with a Tagline on my knee.

Response:

Rafting

Question:

I don’t know but I wish there was – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This appears to be mostly kayakers. I’m looking for advice from a past customer on a Navtec Expedition 1 day RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat) trip down Cataract Canyon. Is there another newsgroup for rafters? Paul

Response:

ive never tried a shreader,  but i have used a 10 or 12 foot cat boat with a R-2 style paddle frame.  I assume that it would handle similar.  It was on the Thompson in BC.  Pretty big water.  That thing was amazing.  Extremely manueverable and fast.  Was able to punch anything.  Too much fun Todd Parker <I’m thinking of buying a Shredder, any comments on them?

Response:

The question I would put forward (pertaining to oar rigs but it would be interesting to note the differences if used as a paddle raft) is ‘what is the best/better method for catching eddies? (snip)

Hey, Jon: Welcome to rafting!  You’re gonna love it!  Escape reality and take it all with you! As for catching eddys; first of all, it is a very different experience than catching eddys in a kayak or canoe: much less ‘agressive’, if you catch my drift.  I almost *never* find an eddy that I can PUSH into and feel that sweet eddy-turn that is soooo nice in a hard shell.  Usually, if it is stronng enough, it sinks the downstream tube and makes me feel very unbalanced for a second. The usual method involves keeping your face downstream, pulling back upstream as you work your way over towards the eddy.  When you hit the eddy wall broadside (say, on river left), you pull really hard with your right blade and spin *into* the eddy.  As soon as you are in, the surge of water against the side tube stops your spin and you’re in. Getting out is different: blast out at right angles to the eddy wall, as soon as the current starts to turn you, *resist* the spin with the downstream oar until you are in the current. Good Luck! — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum.

Response:

This appears to be mostly kayakers. I’m looking for advice from a past customer on a Navtec Expedition 1 day RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat) trip down Cataract Canyon. Is there another newsgroup for rafters? Paul

Paul, I live near Moab (for 20 years now) and spent one summer working for Navtec.  They do a great trip, although it is awfully fast! If you can, opt for the 2-day or even longer trip…there is a lot to see down Cataract Canyon. I would never hesitate to recommend Navtec…I feel they are one of the better boating companies in the area.

Response:

Make that 5… I’m a cat boater… a BIIIIIGGGGG Cat… 18′.  Aside from the inconvenience of going upside down in any kind of decked or open hard boat, I can carry a whole lot more beer and steaks…. and besides, girls can sunbath on my boat.  Much more to my liking….

DAMN!  and here i was thinkin’ bout getting a new baby play cat….. the boicatr…..spring hopes eternal

Response:

Hey, Jon: Welcome to rafting!  You’re gonna love it!  Escape reality and take it all with you!

Thanks. Its another craft to try to master. Learning the required special skills is cool. I’ve been through kayak, squirt, C-2, C-1 (very briefly- yeesh!), K-2, OC-2, canoe tripping, and now rafting. All different, all great fun. Ours is not a big raft (12.5′) but has the advantage of being light enough that my wife and I can throw it on top of my van or stand it up on end on the back of our RV and go to the next river. It also can thread some small rivers which are great for fishing. We started on the Beaverhead (great trout- easy rapids) when we bought it and as avid flyfisher-folk its just the ticket. We find that the K-1’s get less and less use and the K-2 and the raft are getting more. So what’s your preferred route on lining up on holes? In K-1 I use the shoulders of holes a lot to adjust my routes without having to paddle much. You know, it slips you over a bit, minor pause on the eddy line or backwash and then a few strokes to the next line. I also slingshot or S-turn through the eddies or on boil lines behind boulders or pourovers to get low effort ferries. How about rafts? Jon

Response:

when paddlerafting,  i go for the kayak approach,  hit it hard at an angle and keep paddling. As for with the oars,  i have found the best approach is to back ferry into the eddy.  Try to kill as much momentum as possible while approaching,  and back into the eddy with some angle (usually not quite 45 degrees)  more angle for the faster the current you are in. When rowing rafts, they are usually too heavy to be stopped at full speed by the eddy,  and the lack of a hard edge makes it worse.  When paddle rafting, the extra weight is countered by the number of sharp paddles in the water, making eddy grabs like this possible. Wow,  just thinkin about this is almost motivating me to dig out the raft and go rowing….  but i will probably just stick with the kayak Todd Parker

Response:

The question I would put forward (pertaining to oar rigs but it would be interesting to note the differences if used as a paddle raft) is ‘what is the best/better method for catching eddies? I have tried either hitting various angles (and tried both forwards and backwards) …

The very best way is to hang or drag the upstream corner of the entering end of the raft on the rock making the eddy. Even better is to have someone sit on that spot once you jerk around, if you don’t slide off. I admit this is more of a creek boater’s technique, but the philosophy works well on larger runs. Kill all momentum, land at the very top of the eddy, fiddle around with draws and pry’s and standing on rocks to stay there. It can turn nasty real quick if the eddy line is a monster! Tom V. – I like rafts

Response:

This appears to be mostly kayakers.

Not really, it’s just that kayakers talk more.  Rafters have each other to keep company, and canoeists like silence and solitude. I’m looking for advice from a past customer on a Navtec Expedition 1 day RIB (Rigid Inflatable Boat) trip down Cataract Canyon.

There’s little chance anybody reading this will have done this trip. Most people here are private boaters with their own equipment. Cataract Canyon involves miles and miles of flatwater, then a few very intimidating rapids (very dangerous at high water), then a reservoir. The scenery is beautiful.  Why not call Navtec Expedition and ask for some customer recommendations?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – The question I would put forward (pertaining to oar rigs but it would be interesting to note the differences if used as a paddle raft) is ‘what is the best/better method for catching eddies? I have tried either hitting various angles (and tried both forwards and backwards) like a modified kayak entry but the raft wants to spin off- thus, I lay into the oars – if I can do this in a desk chair its something like a hard pull downstream and a reverse pull upstream to stop the spin and try to maintain forward momentum across the eddy line with a bunch of correcting strokes as it goes in. This generates a lot of force and works but is not entirely satisfactory because the antispin stokes retard the forward momentum of the raft and it tends to stall, occasionally missing the eddy. The other approach has been to spin into the eddy, wheeling down the eddy line and edging across as you go with a multitude of corrections- again not real satisfactory and tend to end up in the bottom of the eddy where it may wash out.

I use your first method, entering approx. 90

A Modest Proposal

Question:

Who’s Bart Simpson? — riverman I think, therefore I thwim. Carpe ropum.

I’m Bart Simpson, who the Hell are you? "I go down with the water and up withe the water. I follow it and forget myself. I survive because I don’t struggle against the water’s superior power, That’s all." FTWO Chuang-tse.                                                  

Response:

I wonder if it’s as hard to SPELL in Latin as it apparently is in English…    :-)

Funny, I just read an article about English spelling.  (Yes, I’m one of the sad saps who actually read the articles at the front of the dictionary.)  Of course it should be "dispel."  (BTW, "dispel-" is Esperanto for "drive in many directions.")  The problem is that I wrongly think of it as "dis-spell" – that is, to remove a spell. Oooh, my brain hurts. I think, therefore I thwim. // Carpe ropum.

Excellent! Hukd on Fonix werkd fore ME!

Less than excellent.  The joke breaks down because in English, "hu" is only pronounced like in "human" or "hut."  How about "hookt on fonix werkt for MEE!"? So, how about them paddleboats.  Are there any with adjustable seats? P.S. Thanks for forever changing the way I look at the word dis-pel. Thomas L. Rochestro http://www.esperanto.net

Response:

Re. Esperanto, and other languages: linguists seem to be of the opinion that languages are pretty much similar in difficulty.

    I believe you are carrying an analogy too far.  Esperanto is easier than other languages.  Ask anyone who studied Esperanto and any other language. Esperanto never caught on because it was artificial.

  I question the phrase "never caught on."  That presuposes that there was a one time chance in the past for Esperanto to succeed, and that we expect it to "catch on" and take the world by storm, rather than growing slowly. Esperanto is as strong as it ever was, and seems to be gaining speed, slowly, but nontheless it’s there.  Also, you seem to be suggesting that Esperanto is supposed to replace native languages.  This is not the case. Thomas L. Rochestro http://www.esperanto.net

Response:

I don’t think that is true Susan. I know only one Esperanto-speaker, (snip) Well there’s the problem.  This is like the proverbial question "what’s the sound of one hand clapping".

Perhaps it’s safe to assume this is a joke – but just in case… Rest assured, there is more than one Esperanto-speaker.  Heck, there are two on my street alone.  Just last week, when I flew to Arizona (is it true that Arizona has the most boats per capita?), someone on the plane saw my Esperanto pin and asked if I "actually" speak the language.  He had met someone in Japan who had tried to encourage him to learn Esperanto.  I was thinking, this man can no longer say that he’s never just bumped into an Esperanto speaker "on the street." Thomas L. Rochestro http://www.esperanto.net

Response:

Agree with the labeling idea to "segregate" different intersts. Can this be done with a BUTTON on the Reply/New Message button

Response:

I don’t think that is true Susan. I know only one Esperanto-speaker, (snip) Well there’s the problem.  This is like the proverbial question "what’s the sound of one hand clapping".

I believe Pee-Wee Herman knows; so does George Michael. Re. Esperanto, and other languages: linguists seem to be of the opinion that languages are pretty much similar in difficulty. Considering the universality of language, their difficulty should be similar. Where one may have a bunch of cases to memorize, and word endings to go with the cases, another would have a rigid sentence structure and set of small words that communicate what the prefixes and suffixes do in "agglutinative" languages. Esperanto never caught on because it was artificial. People learn a language as children. As adults, they teach the language to their children. People make up a language and use it as their native tongue *only* when nobody’s been able to teach them a language. That’s how "Creoles" (languages formed as an amalgam of fragments of two or more languages, such as Jamaican Creole) and some signing languages formed. Rating systems have a greater similarity to systems of measurement (SI System and the American "English" system) than to language. People aren’t born with an "instinct" to set up a measurement system, as they are born (according to Steven Pinker, at least) with an instinct to learn a language. It’s easier to make people switch measurement systems than languages, because languages are more internalized. Nonetheless, tradition can be a big impediment; Americans are resistant to changes in their units, and they’re resistant to changes in their WW rating system. Similarly, given the entropic nature of Usenet, you’ll have a hard time getting people to adhere to a system of labeling their content with a bunch of abbreviations in the Subject line. Not that it can’t be done / won’t happen; but until there’s a consensus that it’s needed, it ain’t gonna happen. Whoa–I think I got back on topic! Riviera Ratt Still Clueless in

paxil saga #4:i kissed oprah last night

Question:

ok so all these guys in business suits start jumping, not diving, very polite-like into the bay. so i follow suit. haha.

Freud: Suits are uniforms worn by business people.  Business people have authority in the workplace.   If people with authority behave properly you would follow them even if it meant doing something off the wall like swimming with clothes on.  If the business person is an asshole, on the other hand, you won’t respect them or cooperate with them willingly. then we all get to sleep in boxcars that night. i get my own, at the top of a sandy hill overlooking the bay.

Freud: a boxcar represents a bygone era of romance and slow placed life.  in this past era if you had your personal space you would have felt at ease  and comfortable.  In these hectic artificial environment of today you feel out of place and as if your personal space has been violated. oprah winfrey coming toward me, all disheveled and furious, she waddles up the hill, breathless and i move the comfy curtain which lines my own personal boxcar so that i can see her better, not important, but out jumps an elk and races into the bay. so then oprah reaches me and kisses me on the lips. i got aroused. she and i then discussed philosophy for a bit.

Freud: this scenario outlines your ideal of intimacy from your partner: a remarkable person (perhaps capable of standing up to the cattle interest in texas), a person capable of intense emotions, someone who is not shy in initiating and expressing love.  the elk represents springtime, fertility, and the state of nature. in other words both physical and emotional love. i notice that at the bottom of the bay, i’m up so high that i can see all the way to the bottom, there are paddleboats upside down. as dawn approaches they float to the top and flip over for tourist use.

Freud: elation next thing i know, i’m in mexico, at an airport, and this guy is telling me i can’t get a prescription filled there with my health ins. card: he says i’m supposed to use his and this computer printout spits out what i’m supposed to be on next: wellbutrin. so i go to some mall with all his photo IDs and find this pharmacist and give him everything, he’s filling out the prescription, some guy with a revolver holds it to my temple and waits for the med then grabs the bag from me. i look at the pharmacist and he tells me i shoulda gone to the pharmacist on the west end of the mall, not the east.

 Freud: you have doubts about your medication.  there are things you don’t know about them.  you fear them but recognize they are valuable enough for someone to steal them. then i have this great affair with two different guys. one a native, one a tourist. they wear the same blue vertical stripe shirts but don’t know about each other.

Freud: men are the same everywhere.  they all wear some kind of suit or striped something or other. overall though, i’m having a crappy time so i go find my friend at the airport who gave me his photo IDs and tell him i wanna go home.

overall though men are just good for playing and don’t provide everything you need. he says i’m stuck there for all 8 weeks of summer. so then i try to become friends with snobby tourist girls but they don’t buy it. so i mill about in restrooms with gross stuff overflowing onto the floor for the rest of my time in mexico. also i observe tourist conversation while drinking margueritas.

Freud: feeling as if your outside your gender group and feeling as an outsider among tourists(the ultimate outsiders).  your position of observation you view as a filthy dirty place.  but you are trapped there, not permanently, but for a short time until you heal. -menahuny-

Freud: I want paxil! Be well mena. Bakit — For more information about this service, send e-mail to:

Response:

I didnt know they got the internet in Lubbock… Amarillo. You are?  What is a rillo?

Its when you’ve gone as low as you can. (sic) deb2 – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – is there some kind of reverberating effect in here, you know, like when you shout in a canyon and you can your voice coming back from the other side?

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didnt know they got the internet in Lubbock… Amarillo. You are?  What is a rillo? Its when you’ve gone as low as you can. (sic) deb2

Actually, I’d like to take off another 15  by swimsuit season. -O PS Reverberation? That vibrator is *not* mine, if that’s what you are implying.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I didnt know they got the internet in Lubbock… Amarillo. You are?  What is a rillo? Its when you’ve gone as low as you can. (sic) deb2 Actually, I’d like to take off another 15  by swimsuit season. -O PS Reverberation? That vibrator is *not* mine, if that’s what you are implying.

-O, I need (desperatly) to take off 50 so you’re ahead of me on that. deb2

Response:

I thought it was terrific. Please don’t tell Stedman. -O

Why are you diddling around in a depression newsgroup? deb2

Response:

I didnt know they got the internet in Lubbock…

Amarillo.

Response:

I thought it was terrific. Please don’t tell Stedman. -O

Response:

ok so all these guys in business suits start jumping, not diving, very polite-like into the bay. so i follow suit. haha. anyway. we are having a swim competition. i do ok. then we all get to sleep in boxcars that night. i get my own, at the top of a sandy hill overlooking the bay. i can see oprah winfrey coming toward me, all disheveled and furious, she waddles up the hill, breathless and i move the comfy curtain which lines my own personal boxcar so that i can see her better, not important, but out jumps an elk and races into the bay. so then oprah reaches me and kisses me on the lips. i got aroused. she and i then discussed philosophy for a bit. i notice that at the bottom of the bay, i’m up so high that i can see all the way to the bottom, there are paddleboats upside down. as dawn approaches they float to the top and flip over for tourist use. next thing i know, i’m in mexico, at an airport, and this guy is telling me i can’t get a prescription filled there with my health ins. card: he says i’m supposed to use his and this computer printout spits out what i’m supposed to be on next: wellbutrin. so i go to some mall with all his photo IDs and find this pharmacist and give him everything, he’s filling out the prescription, some guy with a revolver holds it to my temple and waits for the med then grabs the bag from me. i look at the pharmacist and he tells me i shoulda gone to the pharmacist on the west end of the mall, not the east. then i have this great affair with two different guys. one a native, one a tourist. they wear the same blue vertical stripe shirts but don’t know about each other. overall though, i’m having a crappy time so i go find my friend at the airport who gave me his photo IDs and tell him i wanna go home. he says i’m stuck there for all 8 weeks of summer. so then i try to become friends with snobby tourist girls but they don’t buy it. so i mill about in restrooms with gross stuff overflowing onto the floor for the rest of my time in mexico. also i observe tourist conversation while drinking margueritas. -menahuny-

Response:

Boats wanted

Question:

Is this an appropriate list to advertise for boats wanted? If not, can you pleased direct me to a list that allows buys/sells. Looking for canoes, sailboats, rowboats, and paddleboats.

Response:

Try one level deeper:    RECBOATS.MARKETPLACE

Response: